Hello

I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience of Proventricular Dilitation Disease with any of their birds?

Really I was just hoping to get some advice on how the birds coped with the longterm medication (Celebrex) and did it help, what is the birds quality of life like, are they ever normal again ie put the weight back on and have a good quality of life...  for however long that may be, or is it just continued handfeeding to stop them from starving to death. How long to expect them to live etc..

I figure I have to kind of except that Joey has PDD, now 3 avian vets have seen his xrays and all say the same. I am NOT going to put Joey through the agony and danger of an intrusive crop biopsy where there is a 70% chance that they may or may not be able to tell for definate that he has it. If I knew it would help him, of course I would. But its not going to.

Anyway, I was just wondering!

Many Thanks

Michelle

xx

 

Hi Michelle, Sheila maybe able to answer you more on this, I know a couple of people who have had experience of PDD, its not a nice disease to say the least, and the worse part I think is it can lay dormant for upto 8 yrs sometimes , which means if your birds have been in contact with an infected bird or with birds that have been in contact with birds that have had it, your pretty much stuffed in getting other birds without putting them at risk short or long term, 6 months quarantine does not mean they are safe, 12 months won't, its something you have to live with knowing could rear its head in years to come. Sobering thought I think.

The trouble with diagnosing PDD is that, it is usually in a post mortem that they are absolutely sure.
The crop biopsy is such a risky and invasive procedure, that most vets are as you say very reluctant to perfom it.I really think that all that can be done, you seem to be doing.
As for the celebrex, I have heard of it, but Im afraid I dont know the answer to just how successful it is long term.
I think only time will tell.Maybe there will be others along who can give you a bit more information on this.
Thinking of you and Joey at this very worrying time.

The best description I have found of this, ie. not in medical-ese but not written for idiots either, is in a book I have called Macaws: A Barrons Pet owners Guide. (Edited slightly).

PDD is caused by a virus but the viral agent has not so far been identified. The virus causes inflammation of the nerves which innervate the crop, stomach, gizzard and intestines. These organs lose their normal function or motility and dilate which results in maldigestion and wasting. Central nervous system signs are seen in some species and individuals. Clinical signs include weight loss, wasting, and passing whole seeds in the stool. Dilation of the proventriculus and ventriculus can be seen on x-rays. Confirmation can be made only by finding characteristic microscopic lesions in biopsy tissues, although biopsies can sometimes produce false negatives.

At this time no treatment is availiable although a new treatment with the human drug celebrex has shown some promise in preventing death. This disease occurs more frequently and spreads more rapidly in indoor facilities, so if possible, affected birds or flocks should be held in outdoor facilities where sunlight and natural ventilation help to destroy or dilute the virus.

There are some people around who have some experience of living with this disease so I am sure they will be along, or pm you, but from what i have heard sloppy, easily digested foods seem to help, and aren't vomited back up so frequently. eg. mashed potato, scrambled egg, pasta, yogurt. The trick must be to get enough stuff down them to keep their weight up, so I have heard of people grinding up Harrisons etc.and adding vitamins into the food to ensure they get all their nutrients.

oh and please ....regurgitating which alot of our FIDS do is not a sign of PDD, its undigested seeds in the pooh......I had an hysterical member phone me up many months ago thinking their bird (not birdline) had PDD because it was regurgitating. I have it on good authority a good way to monitor if you think it maybe or could affect your FIDS (god willing none of you will have to go thru it) is to keep a weekly/monthly weight record, and a continuing decline in weight should be investigated urgently.

Many thanks for your replies.

When I first brought Joey home I weighed him weekly. He was always around 450g maybe up or down 10g, but always around that mark. I first noticed when there was a problem when his appetite decreased one day, and he didnt look himself. I thought maybe he was just having an off day, but when I weighed him that the evening he had lost 50g. He refused food the following morning, which was really unusual as at breakfast time both my greys cant wait to come out and see what I have for them the play stand. I weighed him again and he had dropped a further 20g. I took him to the vets straight away. I am so glad that I did weigh him regularly so had an idea of his usual weight.

They did all the bloods, and from those result first suspected Psittacosis. Then when Joey was a little stronger after 2 days of hospitalisation they xrayed him which is when they suspected the PDD. The second vet I saw explained the xrays in detail, it was quite shocking to see. His said that the stomach usually takes up approximately 45% of the space, but Joeys was taking up about 90%. Joey showed none of the other signs like the undigested food in poop or being sick. He hasnt regurgitated. The only signs Joey had were the loss of appetite and the weight loss. After he started on medication he seemed to get a lot worse and then he was sick. But luckily that only lasted a day and he hasnt been sick since Sunday. Fingers crossed.

However this evening he seems to be making involuntary head movements like a quick flick or shake of his head quite often, which he has not done before. I have read about PDD having neurological effects and I wondering if this is maybe what is causing this.

I have been feeding him babyfood and Critical care formula, as he got ill over the weekend and I was unable to get any Handrearing formula. Even the Avian Vets had run out and were only able to give me a days worth. I have now ordered Harrisons Recovery Formula on recommendation of the vet and fingers crossed that will be here tomorrow. He is taking 5 approx 30ml feeds a day, and is drinking water himself, though has no interest at all in eating for himself. So will keep going just day to day and pray he improves.

Michelle
x

Hi Michelle

PDD is a terrible diease but it does not have to be a death sentence.
I would imagine that its not the stomach that is swollen but the proventriculus (Gizzard) and this is common in PDD.
some birds refuse food others Gorge themselves then vomit it all back up again.
You are doing the right thing by feeding him regularly .. go by the amount of time it takes for his crop to empty. Critical care formula is fine, The problem with some of these special forumlas is that the birds do not like them.
The Bird care co do one its called special needs diet, again some birds will take it , others not. The Harrisons one again some will eat it others not, If your bird is an adult you might try the Harrisons pellets ground up in mashed potato or similart... what does he normally like to eat?
The secret initially is keeping the weight on.. so what ever he CAN eat (provided its soft food) with ground up harrisons in will work.. they also do a mash but its just ground up pellets anyway.

Is he on Celebrex?
The flicking again is a common sympton, wing flicking head flicking etc.

You will not see any improvement with the celebrex until he has been on it for a few weeks... just keep going!.
Keep him warm and as long as he is drinking water thats good .. does he like any other drink eg orange juice, tea etc.
You also need to give him vitamins Guardian angel from bird care co is good mix it in with his feeds.

Celebrex is an anti inflamatory and will gradually take the inflamation of the proventriculus down... but ti takes some time... once it reduces he will be able to eat foods on his own DONT GIVE HIM SEED!!!!
You need to work with him on this and take it at his pace. There is a lot of info as you know on the Web and also on Birdcare co.
Try scambled egg, porridge (but whisk it all up so no lumps) and mix his good stuff into it.

They have had good results with this medication but have only been using it for about 3 years so there is no information longer than that.

Are you syring feeding him or tube feeding him?

Does your Vet make the celebrex up for you?
Try keeping it in the fridge as well it keeps better.
If you want to pm me your tel no I will call you.

Sheila

Crystal can I just correct you there, regurgitation, if it is not in the normal scheme of things eg: if a bird is hormonal, and regurgitates regularly fine if it suddenly starts to regurgitate for no reason then it DOES need looking at, or if a bird is being sick (this is generally a crop infection but still needs treating).

Thank you Sheila, you are of course correct, I meant as regurgitating goes, most do it over you when they are homonal, which Pettee has done for ever as far as I know, obviously if he was being sick it needs checking out, just my bad wording, my apologises.

Yes it was the proventriculus that was huge. The vet kind of described it in simple terms for me as a second stomach. Thanks for the help Sheila, I look forward to speaking to you.
Michelle
x

How is Joey doing Michelle?